How do you feel about a company that relies on prying information about your children from your neighbors without your consent?
A college-aged woman came to our door and said she was visiting all the homes of the children in our school district to provide resources for our kids to use for homework completion. I invited her in. It was also hot outside, and she had made the clear impression that she was employed by our school district. She showed me her list of names, and told me she had to visit with each family in her assigned section of the district.
The charade that she was associated with the school district continued, even as I asked direct questions about it. She would not say “No, I am not from your school district or employed by your school district.” until I asked her directly “Were you sent by our school district and are you employed by them?” Instead she said she was interning for “them” (deliberately vague pronoun meaning her company, rather than the school system), and that she was brought in from Colorado while interns from our area of the state were sent there as part of the program. She said it was for college credits.
She asked personal questions about my wife, myself, our home, our kids, and details about our kids’ education. She did all this under the (technically unstated) guise of being an official with the local school district. We’d been duped into conversational information sharing with someone misrepresenting herself.
edited to add: When the saleswoman gained affirmation that our daughter was to attend the school she was listed under, the salesperson immediately made it appear that she had a personal relationship with the principle of that school. She named her, asked if we’d met her – then referred to her by her first name and said what a wonderful person she was and didn’t we find that to be so. Again the inference that she had been sent by this principle in an official capacity, representing our school.
She eased into what became a more and more obvious sales pitch. She was selling reference books for families “who prioritize education”. I asked how she got our name and address and she evaded a couple of times before saying that she inquires about neighbors from other homes she visited. She gave the names of several of our neighbors, and indicated that the one next door told them we had small children and that we had a particularly strong interest in their education.
The new neighbors next door do not even know our first names. They may know we have kids, because they see us walking with them, but they can’t even see our home from where they live and they certainly don’t know anything about our educational priorities. They moved in less than 6 months ago and they keep to themselves, we thought they were flipping the house (because of all the work they immediately did to it), so we didn’t greet them when they first moved in. In short – she was lying.
I told her that we don’t know those neighbors. She evaded some more then said, “They know you have kids.”
She then told us, “I’m going to show the books to you, then you tell me yes or no as to whether you want them or not, okay?”. She seemed to be asking us to agree ahead of time not to ask any questions about them not answered by her brief presentation.
She showed us the books. They apparently have selections for all stages in primary education. The sample she showed to us was a vocabulary dictionary for children preparing for grade school. She turned to the entry “cow” as an example, while she explained that it had been developed in part by someone associated with Sesame Street programming. Turns out that she chose a bad entry to start with.
The definition for “cow” was (this is from memory): a grass-eating animal that makes milk in a way we do not understand.
I said, “That’s really strange wording. Milk production is well understood. That is really weird. It sounds like a deliberately unscientific way to present information to a child.”
She had no answer to this, and closed the book. She seemed to know at this point that we were not going to be spending money on her products. She went through all that work to get into our home under false pretenses, then she showed us an example from her ‘educational materials’ that was the equivalent of “nobody knows where electricity comes from.”
Here is the result of two minutes research online – google: how do cows make milk:
http://hubpages.com/question/12747/how-do-cows-make-milk
http://hubpages.com/hub/How-do-Cows-Make-Milk
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_do_cows_make_milk
http://www.ask.com/q/How-do-cows-make-milk
I was curious to see more, but she knew it would be a waste of time, and Mom was eager to usher her out to stop the madness and awkwardness of the whole encounter. I wish like crazy that I had gotten more of a look at these so-called reference books.
Turns out that Southwestern books are widely described as a scam. Salespeople can earn tuition money by working hard, far from home, in a dishonest and deceptive manner. The company was founded selling bibles door to door using these techniques, and its founder is a Baptist minister. Some student unions have banned Southwestern due to ‘improper business actions’ and there is controversy over the terms agreed to by their work force.
I care less about the students duped into pursuing a scam as their summer job, and more about the manner in which they pry private information from neighbors under false pretenses.
Learn about these guys. Tell your friends about them. If one is talking to you – whatever you do, don’t let them mine you for private information about your family, or your friends and neighbors.
My first impression was that I had somebody advertising a religion on my door-step (she wore a large cross on her necklace), she said otherwise and showed some papers to assure me that I was next in line on her list of families in our school district. She said she was here to help us prepare for the upcoming school year, and strongly implied that it was under an official capacity not only endorsed by, but a part of our local school district. Turns out she was selling a product, in a more insidious way than I’d yet encountered – representing that they are the standard in educational reference materials, and implying that they are endorsed by our school district.
Buyer beware!
Some links for more information about Southwestern:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwestern_Company
http://www.salem-news.com/articles/february232010/southwestern-company-ew.php
http://southwesterncompanytruth.com/
http://www.southwesterndifference.info/southwestern_company/not-a-scam-if-you-get-what-you-ordered/
(From Southwestern’s own website –emphasizes how they rationalize what they do by saying it is their right to sell you things in a deceptive but technically legal way. The comments are worth reading, as they indicate that the salespeople are ultimately the ones being scammed)
http://www.homeschoolreviews.com/forums/2/thread.aspx?id=62556
I’m including this link to be inclusive… it is a question “Are Southwestern books a scam?” on a homeschooling site. With positive answers followed by “blessings” as a departing platitude, I think it is clear that some homeschooling families are happy with them – particularly (?) religious ones. I cannot speak to the quality as well as I’d like to. The book I saw called milk a mystery beyond comprehension. If my kid’s first grade teacher called milk a mystery beyond human comprehension, I’d have to meet with that teacher and probably their supervisor. There are books in the Southwestern line which claim to explain why leaves change color – I can’t tell you what answers they give. I am only guessing when I assume they say that it is inexplicable (extrapolating from my abbreviated experience with the product line).
I find this article to be of interest, too – again, from the Southwestern site:
http://www.southwesterndifference.info/southwestern_company/facts-matter/#idc-container
from the article:
“the headline read, “Residents Warned of Book Scam”. The article was actually the school district letting the community know the person selling educational books in the area was not endorsed by the district. With the misleading headline, the article actually caused a problem for the legitimate college student running her business selling Southwestern Company books.”
The next day, under pressure from Southwestern, the paper ran what amounted to a retraction, calling the sales legitimate.
Do you follow what happened there? The Southwestern sales scripts push fast and hard to give the impression that the salesperson is working for the school district, without ever actually saying it. The district wanted to warn that this was going on – but that fact doesn’t technically make the book sales a scam – it makes the sales technique technically legal while relying on misconception to get the salesperson in the door. The (apparently effective) hope is that you will forgive the misunderstanding, attribute it to yourself rather than what the salesperson said (factually misleading since the salesperson certainly guides you to fill in the blanks incorrectly), and then pay 400 bucks for a dozen books that seem likely to be startlingly substandard educational materials, while pushing an agenda in keeping with the founder’s motives and the (republican) politicians the company funds.
Bottom line: Milk is magic.
No, wait – bottom line: A company can still be scummy if the way they mislead their customers is technically legal.
update 7/29/10 -
Here is another’s account – I’m pasting it directly from my comments:
I just got a visit too and decided to Google the company. Thank you for posting this. They did approach me EXACTLY like you said, making it seem like they were an employee of the school district. We’re homeschoolers, so I immediately assumed the district was phishing for information. She asked very personal questions and I became skeptical. She wanted the specific curriculums we use, what kind of grades my children get. It just seemed like a very invasive line of questioning. I did not invite her in, but made her give her pitch on my front porch. I told her I could not make buying decisions without my husband and she wanted to come back. I finally got rid of her, but not before she asked about my neighbors. I know who they are, when they are home etc. But I only told her I *think* they might have children. Now I feel like I should not have said anything.
I just called my districts public relations department and hope they can do something about people deceptively using their name to sell books.
I’m really struck by the description of a perfect stranger, posing as an agent of the school district, asking people about their neighbors children and when they are home – - I mean, how obviously scandalous can you get in this day and age? This is a standard practice for a successful company? Prying private information from neighbors? Who is to say they don’t later come around to rob these homes, going by the information shared (from well-meaning neighbors) about when people are and are not home?! Truly insane.
Thank you for the comment – and I’ll keep this post open to ongoing updates, as it is heavily trafficked and informative about a serious problem company.
New Update 9/8/11:
Be wary of these people asking for a drink and to use your bathroom. Several people are commenting on this common behavior among their Southwestern agents. It sounds harmless enough – but it is clearly a way an agent can further insinuate themselves into your home, and gather further private information about you and your family (the contents of your medicine cabinet – the layout of your bedrooms and windows, etc.).
If another Southwestern agent comes to my home, I plan on calling the police.
It isn’t enough to kick them out – they are preying on our communities and gullible people who give out the private information of others. There is no way that a business model like this should function in today’s world – it is a testament to how lonely people are at home with their children, to low education standards, and to ignorance about the potential abuses of private information.
Taking these disadvantaged students away from their homes in order to make desperation their primary motive to sell substandard materials in a dishonest fashion is despicable and should never be rewarded. Any money spent on these materials is money used to continue this abuse – not benefit poor students.
At the time of this update – over 6,400 people have come here to see this information.
Update 3/30/12:
In response to some rude messages from Southwestern salespeople, I thought I’d share some more links to help those stopping by to look for information.
The story is repetitive. A family taking umbrage with the sales techniques and rightfully being suspicious of people coming to them asking for private information about neighborhood children and when their neighbors are at home. They inform local parents and the police – and if the news makes it into local media – Southwestern takes the time to do damage control that fails to address everything that is dishonest about their approach. Apparently, it remains profitable for them to put out scattered fires, and people ultimately don’t care enough to get out the word about Southwestern to effect change.
http://blog.seattlepi.com/ingreenlake/2011/06/
http://www.lazylightning.org/southwestern-book-reps-not-licensed-not-wanted This piece is useful regarding the fact that the salespeople are not always properly licensed – in which case the local police have more options in ending the harassment and preventing the gathering of information under false pretenses.
http://www.desototimes.com/articles/2007/08/22/news/news02.txt A piece about a Southwestern salesman arrested for his suspect behavior and selling in an illegal fashion. There is a “balance” counterpoint in the piece explaining that he was a NICE Southwestern salesman arrested for his suspect behavior and selling in an illegal fashion.
Useful information about Southwestern from the Better Business Bureau:
INFORMATION FOR CUSTOMERS:
By Federal law, customers who purchase Southwestern products from the student dealers have three days from the date of purchase to cancel their order. Saturday is included by Federal law as a business day. Southwestern is a third party to the contract between the students and customer and can only act on the student’s behalf within the three-day cooling off period.
After ordering products, be sure to keep the sales receipt given to you by the student. It is a contract with the student of your intentions to purchase the product. If in the event you do not receive the product you ordered, Southwestern will guarantee delivery if you have a valid receipt. Call Southwestern’s Customer Contact Center at 888-551-5901 or e-mail at customercontactcenter@southwestern.com.
Alternate Business Names
The Hadden Group, The Southwestern Company, Southwestern Publishing Company, Southwestern Business Resources, SBR-Southwestern Business Resources, Southwestern Advantage
http://www.salem-news.com/articles/february232010/southwestern-company-ew.php This article was subject to a partial legal retraction by the Southwestern Company – but, this depiction wasn’t forcibly retracted: The group operates a web of companies and employs hundreds of independent contractors who are used to disguise their criminal activities. When an accusation of criminal activity isn’t required in a retraction – what does that tell you?
http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/southwestern-company-nashville-tennessee-c219581.html
http://radicallydreaming.blogspot.com/2009/06/southwestern-company-scam_08.html
http://www.salem-news.com/articles/february252010/southwestern-company-2-ew.php
http://www.salem-news.com/articles/february262010/southwestern-correspondence-ew.php
http://www.salem-news.com/articles/february282010/southwestern-company-3-ew.php
update 5/24/12:
A recent Southwestern “intern” posted about how the police advised her to leave the program. Here is a sample of her post:
This is a horrible company which takes advantage of young people. I’m so thankful the cops talked me into leaving and wish I had found this blog before I had agreed to do this. If nothing else, they need to figure out a way (maybe a buddy system) to keep the students safe and they need to be much more transparent about their operations and charges. It’s amazing this company can get away with all the stuff they do. It is disgusting they can work someone 80 plus hour a week and not pay them at least minimum wage for when that person doesn’t make a sale (which, other companies do have to do. But because this is considered an “internship”, this doesn’t apply).
The “interns” (can’t legally be called employees – because then they would be assured minimum wage) are all-too-often well-meaning college kids trying to take financial burden off of their parents’ shoulders – while endangering themselves in ways the parents would never approve of.
I got a book salesperson too, also a college student. I pointed to our large library inside, explained I was a teacher and had better books, and sent her on her way. She must have been a newbie because I didn’t get the full pitch.
Scary.
Yes this is a scam !!! They took money from my account 2 different times now. Fought the first fee , Guess i have to do it again. Beyond irritated.
I just caught them taking money from my account! 4 times and the changed their name slightly each time. They use your routing number from your check and send it to your bank as a monthly withdraw!
I just got a visit too and decided to Google the company. Thank you for posting this. They did approach me EXACTLY like you said, making it seem like they were an employee of the school district. We’re homeschoolers, so I immediately assumed the district was phishing for information. She asked very personal questions and I became skeptical. She wanted the specific curriculums we use, what kind of grades my children get. It just seemed like a very invasive line of questioning. I did not invite her in, but made her give her pitch on my front porch. I told her I could not make buying decisions without my husband and she wanted to come back. I finally got rid of her, but not before she asked about my neighbors. I know who they are, when they are home etc. But I only told her I *think* they might have children. Now I feel like I should not have said anything.
I just called my districts public relations department and hope they can do something about people deceptively using their name to sell books.
I am a college student and a good friend of mine just did this internship this past summer. I was skeptical when she told me about it because she was very vague about what she was selling. She left the day our classes were out in the spring and returned two days late when the semester started in the fall. I talked to her when I could over the summer, which was about once every three Sundays. I know that she was a top seller in the company and that the sales aspect fed through her competitive nature. I don’t know anything about Southwest, but what I can report is this. She is baptist. She is a very Christian girl, at least she was before she started with Southwestern. I can only the describe the change in her personality, by comparison to a cult, I guess. I myself sold Amway in my early 20s and know what these businesses thrive upon. A sort of rouse of Christianity that fills somebodies pockets in a very un-Christian manner. My friend made a lot of money in this program. She has a new car, a new apartment, a new flat screen TV, and several other toys. She was invited back and offered a promotion in the company, which she accpeted. She is now recruiting other college students to come visit your homes this next summer, and she plans to sell books again as well. I really liked this girl before she left, now I just wish her the best.
[...] an energy reseller, read Kevin Sung’s story about a fishy door-to-door subscription scam or read this dad’s experience with the Southwestern [...]
Same story, same cow example. I was so sketched out by the kid that came to my house that I felt the need to Google info about the books. I’m relieved to find out that there actually is a scummy company that exists behind him.
“Justin” ,with his official looking badge that he held up several times before I would even go out to talk to him, also implied that he was sent by the school district. He listed off school names and teacher names and names of our neighbors and friends. A red flag went off when I realized he had a hand drawn map listing all of the houses in the area and names of their occupants. when I told him I would have to think about the books since my husband was asleep (he knocked on my door at 8:30 at night), he told me he did not have any email or phone number or any contact information.(super sketchy red flag).
For some ungodly reason I allowed him to use the bathroom…probably because I felt so bad about shooting him down on the books and seeing him get upset. He spent about 10 minutes in there, repeatedly using the sink and flushing the toilet etc. When he came out, he picked up a magazine in my house and kept holding it and wouldn’t leave. I finally told him to take it and held the door open. He still stood there talking about the magazine until I finally said, “you need to go before my cat gets out.” He finally went back to the porch and I shut the door behind him without saying goodbye.
Maybe I watch too many Forensic Files episodes but he had a Danny pack and a backpack with him and acted like he wasn’t going to leave. I actually almost called the police but I wasn’t sure what to say since I let him come in to use the bathroom. If you are reading this and one day someone creepy comes to your door, don’t worry about being polite…just tell them no and don’t open the door. Crummy books aside, who knows what type of unsupervised people that this distant company is hiring.
I just had a SW advantage saleswoman coming door to door too, and after ordering a few books I’ve now researched and cancelled my check. she was very nice, not very pushy, and felt normal, BUT after she left I noticed the date on the cancellation policy was backdated 3 days, meaning TODAY was already my last day to cancel even though I only ordered a few hours ago. Crazy. The books looked good, but I should’ve known better. SCAM SCAM SCAM!
Same thing, a young college student selling books with lists of people in our area that have already agreed to buy books. My husband sent him away the first 2 times he showed up because I wasn’t home. The 3rd time he showed up at 7 am and was knocking on our door! Needless to say we didn’t move to answer it. He just showed up again, I said I would let him talk to me on our porch but any final decision would have to be made by my husband. He had some speech about being from Nebraska, while 300 of his “class mates” came here…. 300 of the people from my state went there? I would hate to think that there are 300 of them stopping by at all hours of the day and night! He asked questions about our children named names of neighbors and teachers and literally rushed through the whole thing. Said he only has a certain time allowed to each of the 50 houses he had to see. So in my eyes if this comapny was legit the sales person shouldn/t be running off in the middle of his sales pitch? I have since read tons a blogs including this one and contacted the principle at one of the districts he mentioned. Her reply “IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM ARE THESE BOOKS THEY ARE SELLING AFFILIATED WITH THE SCHOOL DISTRICT. THEY ARE NOT APART OF THE CURRICULUM AND OUR INFORMATION WAS NOT GIVEN TO THEM” so the creepy thing is how DO they get our info? My brother in-law lives next door with his 2 children, but he didn’t stop there, ever? I won’t being buying anything… I only feel for the young soon to be adults being used and abused by this shady company!
The young woman who came to my door a few months ago (after dark) stammered her introduction, “You may have sen me working with kids in the neighborhood” (!!!). She implied she was with local school district (my kids attend public school in a different district, at their dad’s address). I jest kept asking what company she worked for, until finally (after 5 or 6 repetitions), she squeaked “Southwestern Company?” as she backed down the walkway.
I worked as a canvasser back in the 80′s (different, more legitimate group), and door-to door “fundraisers” were always sent in TEAMS of TWO. The pairs worked the opposite sides of the street (unlike Mormon Missionaries or Jehovah’s Witnesses, who approach doors in pairs). This simple policy was for the canvasser’s SAFETY. If there was trouble, it would be simple to figure out where to find the person.
After she headed up the next driveway, I walked out onto my block and watched awhile, frankly out of concern for the girl’s safety (my neighborhood isn’t that great) and never spotted another “agent.” The young woman (maybe 19?) who had approached my door seemed to be all alone in a strange, sketchy neighborhood, after dark.
Even if their products were fantastic (the “cow” story exhibits otherwise), Southwestern’s methods– recruiting young people, putting them in strange cities (possibly in real danger), and getting them to trick good people is repellant.
If another rep comes to my door, I’ll have very different questions. I’ll ask, “How can I help you — short of giving you money — to get back to where you belong?”
It’s crazy, I found your page from Google after I had THE EXACT SAME VISIT this morning. Even down to the cow example, which I found sort of perplexing too. I listened to the pitch, thanked her and sent her on her way. I was a little put off after it was clear that she was not from the school district as she had me believe. She said she needed to visit 35 families today and kept dropping the names of all my neighbors, not one of whom I knew. Her pitch was exactly as you describe, almost verbatim.
I got a girl at my house too, which is hilarious because there are no children in this house. Creepiest part was she asked me about all the kids in my neighborhood- what neighbors had kids, how old they were, if they were male or female, etc… I refused to answer anything and told her several times that if she needed that info she’d have to go directly to them. She was adamant that I at least “help her out” as she put it, since I was not interested in her services. Eventually, I said “i’m not interested. you have a nice day” and shut the door on her.
I had some girl at the door last week and gave a lecture about some books and even kaplan program for my older kid. She said she is from Nebraska and is here for exchange program. She did the same cow stuff with me too, haha. But we did not bought any books as we already have plenty of them at our home. She asked about the neighbors info, who has kids etc etc.. what a shame that young girls like that luring people to buy books and fooling people around some educational material. Guess what she gave her number too !!!!
-Balaji
Hey all – I’m a repoter with The Spokesman-Review in Spokane, Wash. I just interviewed three college students from Estonia who work for Southwestern.
I’m waiting for a call back from the company as I type this.
The scenarios above all look very familiar.
I’ve been trying to find someone in the greater Spokane-area (Eastern Washington) who has purchased the books and is willing to talk to me – but with no luck.
Please, if you leave in Eastern Washington and are willing to talk to a reporter about your experience – good or bad – with Southwestern, send me an e-mail at piah@spokesman.com. Thank you.
I just had a young male college student give me the same pitch. He had parked in my neighbor’s driveway and walked to my house. That was the first thing that didn’t impress me. He wanted to know what I do, where I work, how old my kids are, etc. He said he is staying with one of the local public school principals and gave her name. I told him I wasn’t interested from the start, but he still wanted to give his pitch. I refused the books.
On the surface, what I saw was a short, concise explanation of biological functions, some math functions and a history timeline. When I asked about updates, he told me it is all static information. When I told him most textbooks are already 6 years out of date when they hit the presses, he informed me it was just printed in 2010. Nothing changes, though. No information is ever updated. Weird!
Wow!!! When I was approached – given the same “school district” misrepresentation – I was very skepitical and decided not to buy any books. After asking tons of questions, I realized that she wasn’t what she wanted me to believe she was. She flashed the DK logo and the Learning Company logos. I was still interested in the CDs/DVDs that I decided to buy the set of 8 for $144.40 including tax. They got in the car to leave, drove further down, stopped and decided to do the pitch for my neighbors. Well, I decided to try the DVDs. They didn’t work. Tried on a different computer, same thing. I tried the spelling computer and that worked but the graphics were horrible. And it didn’t self install, I had to launch it manually. I decided I didn’t want the CDs/DVDs anymore. I drove down the street and asked for my check back. She wanted to give me a story about since the CDs where open, she wasn’t sure she could take them back. That’s where my big husband came in to the picture. He demanded the check, She gave me the check and I gave her her CDs and left.
But later in the night (after 9pm) I saw the same red car drive to front of my house and stop. So I turned on the light at the fron tof the house and waited to see if either the lady or her “bodyguard” would step out. Instead, they turned the car around and drove off!
I’m happy and scared at the same time.
i share the sam similar story; a lady claiming to be fom Europe came to my door saying my neighbor down the rd referred her to me, i told her i don’t know them and she said pehaps you know (such and such) i said i don’t know anyone in this neighborhood well she proceeded to go on sayng she had to come see me because i was next on her list. she was polite but very adiment about getting in to my house. i stopped her and she pulled out her ID, i looked @ it and told her i wasn’t interested she continued and picked up her bag again to come in. then she asked me about my kids and and said this will only take a few min. i told her i wsn’t interested again then he pulled out the book for (high school students) and showed me examples but told her nice but not interested, she then asked me can she come back when my kids get out of school i told her yeah and then she asked me about my neighbors. she then left. i came in the house to research them online… Thank you all for your post ’cause when she come back it will definantly be NO! and i’m only gong to say it one time. i told her my kids are a senior and junior in high school straight A’s, so your service will be a waist of time for me and you….. Thanks again
How sad! All of you are so closeminded and have no intention of helping a college kid simply b/c they use a ‘cow’ example? Or you think they are hiding something? I am not associated with this company at all nor do I know, personally, someone that is affiliated with them. But I’ve bought a set of books from them twice, because I was willing to listen to the young girl that came to my door. She didn’t act “shady” or “scummy”. She never misrepresented herself. She simply talked about the books. I looked at them, and bought them. I have three kids and they love them. And have ENJOYED reading them. The books are full of accurate and descriptive information, which is hard to find in this liberal world of ours that tends to rewrite history.
Not sure if any of you went to college, but I am still paying for my student loans. It is hard. So just because a college kid travels HUNDREDS of miles to sell a good product, offending you b/c she isn’t from your area, doesn’t mean you need to badmouth the entire company or label it as a scam. Think about what you are doing! What if others do not buy b/c of that! Just sad.
Stephanie – I not only went to college, but I did so as a single mother of 3. I am also still paying off my student loans.
I did not appreciate this young man trying to push his way into my home and lying about staying with a local female principal when he was doing no such thing. I told him straight up I was not interested, but he insisted on wasting 40 minutes of my time. I don’t feel bad about not purchasing his wares after that at all.
He did not raise the cow issue with me. However, he DID ask many personal questions that would lead many to believe maybe he was actually casing the house to come back later when no one would be home.
I’m glad you like that materials. However, most of that information can be found on the internet. If others don’t lose their hard earned money on this because the realize this information is readily available for FREE elsewhere, that is fine with me. You are happy with the product. Good for you. It is not my job to subsidize every college student’s education just because they come to my door.
My wife and I both were here and had a interesting conversation with both of the persons that represented the company. Neither one of them said anything about being or even representing the school district. After purchasing three of the four books offered and reviewing them, and showing the various ways that the kids can resolve the problems to me is better than that of the time that I spent at school. I remembered the teachers as they were good instructors they only taught one way that had me confused by the time it was to do the assignment and doing it wrong if discribing it a little different (the way these books have done would have made it easier for me to understand as well as my teen age son. It is to bad that you persons are only one sided about how to recieve information and not to bad mouth the internet but these books are a lot more easier to reference than that of the internet.
I too had an incounter with this company which I was online doing research. The funny thing is in the above article my salesrep also mentioned that Cow definition as being his favorite. It did not matter how many times I said no, I could not afford this he would still try to come up with ways to get me to purchase them. Finally was able to get him to leave and 3 weeks later got a bill for $244.10 and I did not keep a single book, then the kids shows back up again, when questioned about the bill he said no don’t worry about that, you are not being billed, I don’t trust this kid and think I am being billed, I tried to going to their web site but there is no contact info anywhere so I can’t even complain, I did complain to Lisa Madigan our States Attourney General in hopes she will check into it.
Here is a phone number I got:
1-888-551-5901 but they ask you to have your receipt in front of you.
I had this exact thing happen to me today. College age kid, foreign, represented himself as an intern implying he was somehow with the County?? I was having a bit of trouble with his accent…
Anyway, he got out his list of names, I was getting quite suspicious at this point. We home school and I’m leery about things like this. I sent him on his way after he showed me a book, telling him that we did not need more curriculum, we were happy with what we have. He had asked my about my kids ages early in the conversation. I was glad to finally be able to wriggle out of the unwanted intrusion. I too immediately came inside to Google the company he was with, and found this BLOG. Thank you so much for creating it! I was feeling like I was being too suspicious, nice to know others felt that way too.
Well crap. I just wrote a check for $150 for 2 books. He’s already gone. Should I cancel my check? Why didn’t I look this up first?
Yeah. Similar story here. The kid cornered my wife during the 2 minutes when she had the garage door open, and would not leave her alone. Had way too much information about everyone in the subdivision. Names of each of the family members and where they work and when they’re home, kids names and where they go to school, etc. The kid also canvassed the subdivisions where our kids are in home-school & daycare. At the home-school, he apparently tried to pass himself off as a researcher and wanted contact info / personal info about anyone and everyone. In the subdivision of our daycare, he was hanging out at buss stops. He’s had a different rental car every day. Our neighborhood is close knit. We all talk, and after a short discussion it became apparent that he was lying often- stating that neighbors had given the info or bought things that they hadn’t, etc. Oddly enough, some of our mail has been pre-opened upon arrival. I don’t know if that kid was responsible, but it’s an odd coincidence. This is not normal business practice. I agree that the kid is probably gathering info for later break-ins or home invasions. We called the cops for a suspicious persons report and they said they couldn’t do anything. One of the neighbors tracked him down, made him show his license and papers, and warned him to never come back. I don’t know about you folks, but I consider this kid a direct threat to my family and neighborhood, and he will be dealt with as such if he comes around again. I sincerely hope, for his safety, that he has enough common sense not to.
I wish I would’ve researched this company before I paid for these books that I NEVER got. It’s upsetting to think I was trying to help this young lady for her college tuition. Lesson learned.
Today a young Chinese man (good English but thick accent) showed up at my door with a pack full of books. Claimed to be from Seattle. Seemed like a nice guy but I had no intention of buying anything. He showed me a list of names I didn’t recognize and talked about schools in the area. We sat on the porch and he showed me the books, and before he even clarified the price of the full set ($359) he had his order book out and was asking for my name and address. I said thanks but no thanks and he was cool with that, but then asked for a bottle of water (it was very hot today). I didn’t have any so I offered him a diet soda and he asked instead for a juice box. (That was probably to butter me up so he could ask to use the bathroom.) To my eternal shame I’m very trusting, so I let him use the bathroom (he was brief, and I didn’t notice anything missing afterward) and answered some of his questions (a little vaguely) about other families with kids in the neighborhood.
The next salesperson to come to the door is going to get a much chillier reception.
I’ve been reading these comments and keeping an eye on peoples’ experiences with Southwestern for a little over a year now – and it wasn’t until I read your message that I remembered that my own salesperson asked for some water, and then to use the bathroom. More ways to gain access to your home, with the opportunity peruse your medicine cabinet and take a look at the rooms on the way to the bathroom, etc. It boggles the mind that Southwestern is still legally able to operate with this system of lying to people, information gathering about whole neighborhoods and groups of people without their consent, and engaging in behavior any law enforcement officer would acknowledge clearly fits the description of casing homes and potentially endangering your family.
just FYI
sales people are not an employees of the Southwestern that way they are covering they asses.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwestern_Company
“Southwestern Company recruits and trains college students to sell educational reference books, software, and children’s books door-to-door. Students participating in the Southwestern program are independent contractors, not employees of the company, purchasing books at wholesale from the company and selling them direct to private families at retail, for delivery at the end of the season.”
I had all the same happen and did order a set of books. I only ordered the small english/spanish set of 4 (colors, shapes, numbers, words). I was very cautious in the beginning but once she informed me she was living with our cities Chief of Police while she was in the country I started to let my gaurd down. I guess I figured if he was ok with what she was doing around his city then it should be legit. Wish I would have found this website before ordering but I am happy with the 4 books I received. They will be helpfull in teaching my toddler some of the basics.
I just ordered some and when she said she couldn’t take a check because her back account was closed and wanted cash I should have canceled right then. She said she will come back Friday at 9pm (?) and I should have cash. Sheeeesh…why did I get bullied? She was from Europe and used my bathroom Stunk of boy pee and is at the front of the hallway so she can’t check out the other rooms.
I had the same thing happen, she said she was interviewing parents that had kids at the local school about it being the first day of school. Of course I let her in with saying she was from the school and she had a tag on too. I ordered some books and liked them but they also charge you $19.99 a month to use their website which I didn’t agree to. So I will be canceling my credit card today and never answering the door to people I don’t know again. I think they are being very misleading in everything they do. I also tried to email them and got an out of office reply. I called them and asked them to take my credit card information off of their wensite and they said only IT can do that. I asked to talk to IT and they said they never allow that. I am irritated because I didn’t input any credit card information onto their website but they put it on there. I believe its a scam because everything they are doing is misleading. Thanks for this post
Okay – I just received a call from our bank and they have begun withdrawing $19.99 a month from our checking account. I have no idea what this is for and I’ve read every bit of fine print on my receipt! BEWARE people! I will be cancelling the draft and will make sure they aren’t able to withdraw in the future! CRAZY!!
I just had this happen, too. If you read the very fine print, they give you a few free months of skids.com, an online educational site they host. Then when the free months are over (depends on what you bought), the charges automatically begin. They were good about cancelling and assured me that no further charges would happen and that they deleted my payment information, but I will keep an eye on it.
bought some books from a very nice girl. didn’t ask to use bathroom, a drink ,anything. the isue i had was that i wrote a check for a product and they automatically signed me up for their 19.99 a month website. called number they are required to give banks for autodrafts and after waiting on hold FOREVER got someone who “canceled ” and gave me a confirmation and refund no problem. we’ll see if it goes through. the issue is more with the students doing the selling than anything else. the gal accidentally left her training book and i looked throuh it a little before i tracked her down (she was walking door-to-door) and didn’t see anything underhanded WRIITEN but the techniques like asking questions to gain rapport, and such. all in all i still give company an F.
Noticed a charge for $19.95 out of my checking acct today. It was a pre-authorized charge according to my bank. BULL! I logged onto their website and they have my checking acct number, routing number, etc in their information. This is not ok people! I will never buy from anyone like this again.
Contacting the BBB on Monday morning about this company.
I so feel the same Renee.THIS IS A SCAM
I have been reading all of the comments and am glad I’m not on any lists. I recently graduated from college (east coast). But in my Jr. year I was approached with a “great offer” to make “as much money as you want”. As a college kid it is easy to get pulled into the idea of making lots of money and I went to the seminar….. After the first 10 min I realized what I had been sucked into and backed out. I told my dad about it and how you have to find your own host family (they don’t even help with that) and then travel to TX (I’m in NC) to sell books door to door. My dad agreed that I shouldn’t get involved and it sounded like a scam and completely unsafe. However, later I was approached by a guy in my class who said he had done it and pushed and urged me to do it. I guess he had been selling that for a while, because he had the pushiness down.
Also, there is a company that sends college kids door to door selling magazines. The guy that came to my door tried to force himself into my apartment. He wouldn’t go away unless I purchased something. I finally had to rudely shut the door on him. I felt bad but it’s my house.
We do not ask to use your bathroom to look in your medicine cabinet, as human beings sometimes we just need to pee!!!! And working in 100 degree heat, I don’t think asking for water is really a strange thing to be doing. Sorry but it is not a scam, your books were delivered and often we do know the teachers in the area after speaking to them and having them as customers.
As for the ‘cow’ story it does not mention anything about “making milk in a way we do not understand”.
I think some people just like to moan and it would do you no harm to see that these are real people with real feelings just trying to do their job. If you’re not interested just politely say so and that’s fine. However calling the company a scam is extremely unfair and untrue.
If your copy doesn’t say milk production is beyond scientific explanation – you have a different edition to the one I was shown because that one most definitely did.
Also – yes, people need to drink and pee. It’s when those people are lying about who they work for, evading questions about where they get the private information about your family, asking you to give away the private information about your friends and neighbors without their consent, and are being reported to local police as well as the better business bureau for fraud and scamming… when those people ask to come into your home unsupervised, that is when it becomes concerning.
Do yourself a favor and work for a company with integrity next time.
I made a mistake and ordered the cd rom set. The “company” is now taking money out of my account monthly. I have tried to call the customer service center numerous times and all I get is a recording saying they are closed for the day. I now have to file a claim with my bank, cancel my card and order a new one. I have learned my lesson for sure. South
I wish there was more for us to do, to get these people out of business .
My situation was the same. The girl gave me the impression that she was from the school district. That is the only reason I let her in my home. I could not get her to leave and even told her that my husband and I consult each other on big purchases. She still wouldn’t leave but told me that I could always cancel my order after I talk to my husband. Big mistake. I did cancel my order but noticed last month–4 months after I cancelled it–that they were automatically withdrawing 19.95 a month from my account. They said they would fix it. I got the 19.95 back and the same day they withdrew 19.95 again from their online program that goes with the books…that I don’t even have. I have called the bank and they put a stop on my end and now we are going in and changing our account number since they have taken out money from a few different places and the bank said they could just do it again with a different name. I normally do not open the door for door-to-door salespeople and that is what is frustrating about their tactics. Such a nightmare over books I didn’t even want.
I have the money being taken out monthly as well. It was a free thing with my CD purchase that was supposed to end in Sept. I believe I paid with for my merchandise with a check. I noticed I was getting charged monthly for this web learning and we never use it and it should have expired. Well so far I’ve called 2x to cancel and they tell me its canceled. I just checked again and we got billed again! Anyone have luck or know who we can turn them into? I’m not sure I want to go as far as changing bank account numbers, but I guess we may have to.
This is CRIMINAL!! My story is the same as many above. Particularly Jess’.
I was home alone in June 2011 when a college kid from Eastern Europe selling books (he was thirsty, so I gave him a bottle of water) came knocking on the door.
It was so much money I told him I couldn’t afford it. He told me I could pay 1/2 now and 1/2 when they were delivered at the end of the summer.
I wrote a check for 1/2 ($159.40).
Later that day, I thought more and decided I REALLY couldn’t afford them.
I called the company and told them to cancel my order, which they did. I did get my money back (August 2011), but…
They have been withdrawing $19.95 from my account under different names (swadvantage.com, southwestern, etc.) for the last 3 months. Apparently, they cancelled my order, but decided to keep my checking account and routing numbers on file!!
We have put a “block” on our account. But, the bank warned us that they can just keep changing the name of the company, so the only way to “actually” take care of the problem is to change our account numbers with the bank.
So sad, that a greedy, dishonest company can take advantage of honest, hard-working people and make us less trusting.
I will also be calling the BBB and state attorney general.
This is such a horrible copy. Four times they took money out of my account I thought it was only 2 times ,But no 4 times., i had to talk to my banker, and my husband has to get direct deposit into a new account. THIS COMPANY SHOULD BE SHUT DOWN.
Same scam in Port Matilda, PA…Sweet college gal sold us some children’s books. A few months later, I started getting $20 charges on my credit card…Now, I’m dealing with disputing the charges, blocking the merchant from making additional charges, etc. I also contacted SWADVANTAGE and the gal said she’d cancel stuff and issue a credit in a couple weeks…we’ll see.
SWadvantage SCAM up in Alberta, Canada also
Useless overpriced books for a subscription based fee and they never cancel the subscription. The cancellation form asks for more personal information so they have more back-up to keep on billing you. American Express has been willing to refuse charges on a transactional basis but will not permanently block charges from them.
Has anybody contacted the attorney general for the state that these creeps are hiding out in?
Same thing in Osterburg, PA. It is my husbands account and they are taking $19.95 a month. I contacted them through email and they have not responded.
M Clark this is what happen to me also.
I received a visit in the summer of 2011 from a kind foreign college student. She seemed honest and not too pushy, but did come across as someone who was working with many respected families in our school district. I purchased two of their math books. After looking through them, they seemed to be pretty decent books with a wide range of math instruction covered. The books were expensive, and I soon regretted paying the price I paid. We have used the books and they are helpful.
My main problem with the company is that I am being charged $19.95 a month now for a kids website that I was never aware of. The college student never mentioned the site, never told me that it was “free” for a limited time, never directed me to a web address to access the site, etc. I’ve been charged for the past three months and when I called the company to complain, I was told I would be refunded for the past two months but that was all they could do. I have emailed a formal complaint to them and I will wait to see what happens next.
I am certainly reporting this company to the BBB and other consumer watchdogs. I can’t stand dishonest and deceitful companies. Thanks for helping to spread the word.
UGH the same has happened to us out here in Rural Beardsley, MN. Very pushy sales girl with a distinct German accent that would not take no for an answer!
I had this happen where my checking acct was charged 19.95 and I had bought computer games from a college student going door to door about a year ago. This person also used our bathroom as well. I will be looking further into all of this!
Ugh!! So frustrating to see that this is happening all over the US! We purchased last summer here in Central CA and just this morning I recognized the $19.95 that “Utah” mentions above. The first 2 charges were in line with a trip my husband took and holiday purchases, so the amount was not a flag – I was able to file a claim with my cc company and was told that all 4 – $19.95 charges will be refunded. I’ve been calling everyone I know that purchased from him – the “Bulgarian student” who oddly enough seemed to know Way. Too. Much. about the local geography for only having been in the US for 3 weeks! He knew things about little towns people don’t even know exist. A girlfriend of mine paid 2 payments – by check – and when I called her, she realized that the $19.95/mo was coming from her acct each month. Now I’m very interested in digging more into the materials, they seemed great at a glance, now need to see if they are the quality that I understood them to be at the time of purchase… I may be sending them back for a full refund!!
Was anyone ever able to return there books ?
Just found fraudulent $19.95 charges on my account today (2/8). Researching through bank statements, I discovered this had been happening since November. Contacting my bank / credit card company now. Seems they have gone form mis-leading sales pitch to flat out stealing. Neither my wife or I have had a visit from any sales person or ordering any educational materials. They are just stealing now.
These people came to my house and i was so scared because my husband wasn’t home that i just gave him a 20 dollar check and he said he would be back with the books but never came back. Now the company is trying to take $19.95 a month for some online education tool. I called them and explained what happened so they gave me a refund. I changed my atm card number which i never gave them in the first place. Now a year later they are taking the money again. I talked to my bank and asked them how that’s possible and they said that the company called visa and told them they had prior authorization from my old card number and so visa gave them my new number. Big scam…. Call the police if these people come to your door… Maybe they will stop if enough people run them off with the police.
Hello ,
Im so glad you guys think that way. My name is Stan and yep , I too work with SouthWestern as a “shady , creepy , scammy , badass” college kid.
. Nevermind the people who actually told you , they got the books , the used the books , the books help. Plus people love conspiracy theories to no theiories at all …. so It would explain why you feel that way.
Honestly , you guys just ran into 1st years that are embarrased , lack confidence , forget parts of their presentation , are in debt because of expenses (the program is free , so the company only wins if you a purchase is made) and afraid of the No’s you’re giving them. But you dont care about that. “It’s a scam” That’s it
Thank you for being honest. Still , I feel like your honesty is a result of self-deception.
Stan
There was nothing embarrassed, insecure or apparently inexperienced about that woman who got into my house under the guise that she worked for our school district and was personally acquainted with our school principle. A business that routinely deceives its customers (aside from the complaints in the blog entry – see the many reports of unapproved recurring charges) isn’t a big scary conspiracy – it is a lousy business that people should be forewarned about. If there is any self-deception going on, it is in your ability to rationalize, defend and work for such an organization.
my son is thinking about doing this job with Southwestern over the summer, but after reading all the comments, I don’t want him anywhere near this. Their website says 7 days a week sun up to sundown – the whole summer – 13 weeks, staying with a “host family” in an area far from home. The website looks legit, but all these comments are very scary.
I wouldn’t allow my kids anywhere near this company. They would appear to be perpetrating widespread (but technically legal) fraud, while working their staff to death for peanuts.
I had a guy come into one of my classes and have everyone fill out this card about their summer plans with their phone number on it. I filled it out like everyone else and it was this company. He called me a couple weeks later asking if I would like to attend an informational session. I did. Then I ran as quickly as I could. Saying that students would make around $8,000-$10,000 in one summer. I knew this was too good to be true. I definitely made the right decision in letting them know I was not going to be at anymore interviews.
Southwestern came to recruit at my UK university in 2002 and I took the bait about ‘travelling in America’ and eventually paid out over £1500 to ‘work’ for them. This included flights, J1 Visa, accommodation in Nashville for Sales school…the amount we had to pay out was endless! After 7 days of Sales School we took a Greyhound bus to Colorado (which we also paid for) and then spend time in a Ramada Inn (also funded by us!) while we looked for a place to live. The recommended way of doing this was knocking on people’s doors and asking if they could accommodate you. Luckily for me my housemate was a bit more organised and had a list of parents of previous Southwestern alumni and we visited those addresses as they would at least know what I was talking about.
The job itself was a nightmare – 12 or 13 hours a day on foot or on your bike, trying to force these books on people. They have obviously updated their sales patter as when I was working for them you did a spiel about the books and then said ‘Can I have a sit down?’ and then you were supposed to walk past the person who had opened the door to you and sit down in THEIR house! You were then supposed to find out what grades their kids were in etc. I could never muster the nerve to go into people’s houses and usually talked to them on the door step as they were obviously all complete strangers. Back then there wasn’t a ‘debit’ system for when we collected deposits – the person either gave you part of a deposit for the books that you had to pay in and then go back and collect the rest later, or they paid for the books in full and you delivered them later or they gave you nothing and you had to deliver the books and see if they paid you. I guess this new element of being able to debit directly out of people’s accounts is a new scam on the part of the company and a way to make money.
Southwestern were supposed to look after our safety but they never did. Twice I was followed home, and once in broad daylight a guy in a truck followed me in his car and then exposed himself. I was 19 at the time but being small and wearing shorts and T-shirt with my hair in pigtails he must have assumed I was much younger. I am only glad that it happened to me and not someone who was actually a child. I told my parents over the phone and they freaked out and called Southwestern who were absolutely nonchalant about it. About a week later my friend was sexually assaulted while out selling books.
A lot of my Southwestern peers from that cohort came back feeling depressed and some had to have counselling. I couldn’t even face looking at my book bag at the end! I was so happy when it was finally time to go home. I ended up making a profit of $3500. You buy the books on credit with your own money and then Southwestern give you any profit you make. A lot of people ended up owing the company money. In the UK we didn’t even get college credit to go towards our degree! Many people left the programme early on and actually went travelling around America – I wish I had done that. For three months all i saw were the suburbs of Aurora – I really wanted to quit but I needed to pay my dad back as he had given me some money towards my £700 flight and so I felt like I couldn’t.
The only good thing to really come out of this experience was the kind people I met. Some days I was so tired I would sleep on pavement and so many people from the kind neighbourhoods of Aurora helped me. I really couldn’t believe how kind complete strangers could be to me – once when my bike tyres were punctured repeatedly I ended up tying it to a lamp post and leaving it and when I came back someone had gone to Walmart for me and bought tyre gunk and a pump and just left it on the handlebars. I still keep in touch with some of the families I met that I became friends with (and started to hang out with towards the end of the summer instead of selling books because I hated my job so much) and they actually went from being strangers to being firm friends.
So there it is -my Southwestern experience. I would NEVER do it again and never recommend anyone to do it. Go travelling, make an impact in an ethical organisation, work in a shop if you want, but don’t do this. You are just benefiting a huge corporation that couldn’t give two hoots about you and also taking people for a ride at the same time.
Our son was just invited to an interview for an “internship” and was “invited” back for second interview. He was told that of all the people that were interviewed, he was the one that the interviewer was hoping would show up! My son was all excited (freshman at a large state university). We did the research and this blog has been very helpful. It’s amazing that with everything we know about SW, there are still people out there who can sell this stuff successfully and people out there willing to buy it…………..the company is rich!!!!!!!!!!!!
We are parents of 2 college students that were approached by a Southwestern recruiter… I looked into this company & discovered that these students arrive in another state without a place to live… They are told to knock on doors to ask for a “room for rent” before they actually start selling… It’s crazy how these poor college kids are taken advantage of in almost a “slavery”… They are told to work 80 hours a week, and some of these kids LOSE money that summer instead of making any money!!! Pass this info to any one you know with college kids do they don’t get scammed!!!!
The nature of my comment is to not only tell you briefly about my experience but also to clear up and illustrate to you all why and how some of you may have felt deceived. I am a 23 year old college student and have worked for Southwestern for 5 years now. I started as a frightened, broke, insecure pessimistic 19 year old kid. Typically the students that do the best with this job are motivated, hard working, ambitious, open minded, competitive, athletic and personable. Thank God for me the student manager that put me on his team happened to be a close friend of mine and decided going throught the southwestern experience could be a life changing event and indeed it was.
I am now a completely different person because of my experience. I am confident and almost annoyingly positive in every aspect of life. I understand and value hard work and unconditional dedication to goals i set for myself. Through recruiting, training, motivating and managing over 36 different college students in the past 5 years I understand how to develop and maintain relationships with people and have successfully built and RAN a 7 figure bussiness during my college years. Powerful on a resume? Yes I think most would agree so. Common denominators of the most successful people in the history of a country that was founded on free enterprise? Absolutely. If I didn’t have morning classes tomorrow I could go on and on about how priceless this experiene is and how one truly sets themselves up for success after working for our company. However, the majority of people on this blog have already made up their mind and me doing so would be a complete waste of time and effort.
The nature of my comment is not to brag about myself. A small portion of it is intended for the parents who believe that it is absolutely crazy for their kids to get involved with us. I understand. You love your kids and the last thing you want is to see them not only get “scammed” but also to see them fail. I truly do understand. This job is not for everyone and we do appeal to a niche type of student.
Please let me make this clear. This is a business that students get into (preferably 2 or more summers) in order to grow personally. In 5 years I have attended over 600 hours of training. This training includes sales, running your own business, effective communication, how to motivate and train people, building HEALTHY LONGLASTING relationships and positive success principles. In over 600 hours of this AT NO POINT does ANYONE from the top down tell us to go about our business in a shady, “scummy”, unethical way. Yes Yes i know what your thinking. Obviously I am saying this because I work for southwestern and have dedicated 5 years of my life to them. Some of you may even be thinking the point of my response is to benifit and further our recruiting efforts. This is not the case. I took the time to read through all the responses and stories as I have done on MANY websites over the past few years and I just cant sit back laugh to myslef anymore.
I am not here to argue that some of you have truly been deceived or wronged by a student that visited you one summer. Are there cases when a family ACCIDENTLY does not receive their products? YES. Are there cases when a student intentionally (like an idiot) tells parents they are from the school district. YES. Are there cases when a student is excessively pushy. YES. The fact of the matter is simple. All Southwestern can do is give students the correct ethical way to be successful (which we 100% do) but ultimately southwestern has little control over what a student does or says while they are working BY THEMSELVES. This is of course until the matter becomes aware to management and then management always acts accordingly.
Another reason why families feel the wierdo college kid knocking on their door is being deceiving or shady is a simple and logical one. PEOPLE USE SELECTIVE HEARING WHEN A DOOR TO DOOR SALESMEN IS ON THEIR FRONT POARCH. Im sorry but in 5 years I’ve knocked on a ton of doors and that is a FACT! As a door to door salesperson goes through their approach the prospect (most of the time) is thinking…why is this person here, oh my gosh another door to door guy how can i get rid of them, i have food on the stove when are they going to leave, im already 5 minutes late to pick up the kids. The list is endless. My point is is that is only natural for people to do this however, in the process you MISS a lot of what we are saying. This is why we we try again (being “pushy”) and why our message can sometimes be misunderstood. I PERSONALLY received a phone call from my manager at the company last summer. I had just ran into a very upset dad. He was telling me that his neighbors had warned him about me and that it was awful businesss practice to go around telling people i work for the school. hahaha. sound familiar? Guess what? I SPECIFICALLY say in my approach as we are trained to do “I AM NOT WITH THE SCHOOL DISTRICT”. But because i know so much about the school district ( i am selling educational products. doesnt it make sense that if i am selling a book to help your kid with school i should be familiar with what your child will be learning next year) and the community some families AUTOMATICALLY assume that i said i am with the school district. Also we do carry a list of names of people who bought from us and show it to the famiies at the door. Obviously most people are more willing to listen or buy a product if they know their friend or someone they respect has done so.
Hopefully a few of you are still reading and have understood my message. Again I do not doubt that many have had bad experiences with our company. These bad experiences are not a product of shady teachings by southwestern. They are a product of THE SMALL PERCENTAGE of students every summer who are not acting with the integrity that southwestern attempts to instil in them. This a great company with many success stories and in over 150 years of business endless testimonials both from buyers and participants. I want to apologize to those that have had a bad experience. I also encourage you to understand that we are doing a great thing from the inside out. If you dont like our students, our product, or how we do business thats fine. Just dont buy the books. But for those of you who intentionally spread devastating PR around your communities about a college student working 3 times as hard as any other student around the country only in hopes of bettering themselves, their futures, and their finances. Then shame on you.
This is a note from someone who thinks they can describe Southwestern in a way that will make people feel better about the company and its salespeople.
They then say “shame on you” if you are “intentionally spread devastating PR around your communities about a college student working 3 times as hard as any other student around the country only in hopes of bettering themselves”. when it would be foolish to spend one minute discussing the company with that motivation.
People write in with their shared experiences. This person also allows for the fact that these experiences are ones they are aware of – yet, cannot seemingly understand how the plight of hard working students (by all indications being taken advantage of by a unscrupulous company) isn’t endearing enough to have everyone overlook the sales practices.
The concept of lying by omission is lost on these salespeople – it would seem to be a deliberate outcome of their Southwestern training. Will they come to understand honesty and integrity later in life – or will the Southwestern training techniques steal more than just a few of their summers from them? Likewise, they are trained to work very hard, for very little, only to blame the discerning customer base rather than the business model for their difficulty. What kind of company will this mindset lead them to work for in the future?
For all of you that are so sure that you know things about Southwestern, you clearly do not. The summer that this blog was posted, I was selling books door to door in the scorching New England heat for Southwestern.
I have struggled in school since I was 12 years old, and at the time was funding my own college education…even more difficult to complete, given my inability to do math as I was majoring in business. A friend recommended that I be interviewed by Southwestern, as they DO in fact get tips for contacts with whom to associate in order to grow their business through networking. (GASP!) Just like any other real business! It was the summer of my graduation, and I had a decision to make if I was ever going to get a shot to get out of the midwest and have a real career. So I did a ton of research on the books (unfortunately not enough on the training progam itself), and borrowed a car to go to Nashville for a week of intense training before setting out to New England. Had I not wished that I had these books for myself for all of the years of struggling in school, and never having a single teacher to could explain things to me in a manner that I could understand, I would have not thought twice about turning down the internship. But I knew that I would be selling books that would legitimately help a child like the one I had been; and that there may just be parents out there that would take a moment to truly listen to their children and buy them a tool to beyond that provided in the egregiously low budget public education system.
Southwestern itself- yes, it is intensely difficult…and to be frank, I loathed my managers. However, it gave me an out. An opportunity to try something different and learn something about myself. And I know I sold books that were excellent quality. More than I few times I spoke with parents who had bought the educational set more than a decade before and STILL used and loved them. It also taught me a TON about self-motivation, sales and business in general. I did leave the program early, because of so many parents like “Dad” here. The sales I made were from lovely parents who took the time to listen, rather than immediately being skeptical and – clearly – amply rude. I feel sorry for the poor hard-working girl that wasted her time on your sour puss, “Dad”.
Please describe to me how reacting to a person making their way into my house by misrepresenting themselves, trying to sell me books containing untrue information, and asking for private information about my friends and neighbors, their children, and the hours they are likely to be home, makes me a “sour puss”. Is it because the person doing these things is an underprivileged, hard-working college student taken away from their home and put into debt by Southwestern? Can you understand that one has nothing to do with the other – but that both are undesirable to many people for different sets of reasons?
I did nothing at all “amply rude” to the salesperson. I’ve only described the experience I had, so others can learn from it. As a result many many people have shared similar experiences.
I’m sorry that your public education was so poor that it was worse than the Southwestern overpriced and inaccurate materials (judging by ones shown to me on the day the girl tricked her way into our home). I assure you that my own public education was excellent – and my children have an even better one.
Thank you for your honesty involving how you felt about your managers. Coming out of such an experience with resentment for both your employers and any customers who do not purchase things from you is another disheartening example of Southwestern’s effect on people’s lives.
I hope you have since found people who you can work for and associate with that are more positive and fulfilling for you and your life.
“This is a note from someone who thinks they can describe Southwestern in a way that will make people feel better about the company and its salespeople.”
“DAD” Cmon now man. please take your head out of your a**. You and a few others obviously had a terrible experience with a southwestern salesperson. My note was a complete factual honest representation of Southwestern teachings and practices as well as 90% of our student dealers. We did over 50 million in sales this past summer! In the summer of 2011 we had over half a million customers! There are less than 100 people on this website that have had a bad experience with us. Do you not think you are making a complet over-generalization of our company and our salespeople?
“Likewise, they are trained to work very hard, for very little, only to blame the discerning customer base rather than the business model for their difficulty.”
Yes you are absolutely right. We attract students every year to come work for us and the crazy part is they come back all because we train them to work very hard for very little. Oh and if all else fails little timmy. It will make you feel better if you fail to just blame the customer. Your ignorance truly does suprise me.
“DAD” please use common sense. We have a great product! It actually has been the number 1 sold reference book in the country for years! We have ENDLESS testimonials from customers and teachers to attest to this. Southwestern salespeople (most of them) sincerely care about our customers and not only IF the product is right for them but exactly WHICH product will be best for them. WE HAVE A TON OF PRODUCTS. How in the heck could we possibly help you make the best decision if we dont ask you questions and your kids and how they are doing in school? We have only good intentions but your skepticism is prevents you from realizing that YOU HAD A BAD EXPERIENCE WITH ONE PERSON! Most people have great ones. Dont be an idiot. EVERY SALESPERSON ASKS PERSONAL QUESTIONS.
Gee only 100 bad experiences. That’s impressive. Good,bad, or otherwise I don’t want anyone from this company at my door again. The last guy parked, uninvited, in my neighbor’s driveway & made his rounds of the neighborhood. He lied about who he was staying with, claiming to be staying at the female principal’s home of a neighborhood elementary school. The principal is neither female nor carries the name given. When I told him I was not interested, he insisted on wasting an hour of my time with his hard sell techniques. He left mad when I stood my ground, after accusing me of wasting his time.
What he didn’t know is I grew up with a salesman who could sell a bikini to an Eskimo on a -40 degree day for immediate wear to the local snow beach. I recognized every one of his tactics. If he had respected my time & initial answer, instead of pushing me, he might have had time to make a sale elsewhere.
I owe you students nothing. Neither does anyone else on here. Get over yourself.
Thank you for your colorful reply “MDUBBS COLLEGE STUDENT”, it helps to put you into context . Including your descriptions of me as a senseless idiot with my head up my ass. Do you end many failed sales attempts in such a respectful way?
I feel you have personally done more to make the case against Southwestern than the people who have written in with complaints, concerns and reports of fraudulent bank charges.
There is little to no indication that my experience was not a typical one with Southwestern. Thousands of people have viewed this post for information, and a significant number (if only a small percentage of visitors) have shared identical stories to my own as well as alarming variations.
“Don’t be an idiot. EVERY SALESPERSON ASKS PERSONAL QUESTIONS.”
Pretending to work for our school district to get into our home, then asking about neighborhood children and when their parents are home. If this strikes you as acceptable, we share very different values.
Since, to you, this seems like the idiotic concern of someone with their head up their ass – again, I want to thank you for your Southwestern affiliated opinion on the matter.
I am considering working with Southwestern this coming summer. I really like all of the people I’ve met in the program so far and the products seems legitimate to me. I’m having a hard time making up my mind about the program because there seems to be so many mixed reviews on the internet. As I am trying to make an informed decision, I am only becoming more bewildered. I do feel that perhaps you just had a bad experience, “Dad.” There are obviously hundreds of sellers with Southwestern every summer, and not every one of them can be good at what they are doing. I think that if I am honest with the people I meet, do not misrepresent myself, and try earnestly to only sell them what is best for them, how can I go wrong?
How you could go wrong is by working with Southwestern, who clearly have a sales technique/script that is dependent upon lying by omission and the encouragement of misdirection as a sales tactic – in a sales force that is in debt, living in questionable circumstances with questionable security and safety, selling in an antiquated manner that all but the most gullible (re: unsophisticated or savvy) consumer would be suspicious of (rightfully – seeing as the techniques include misrepresentation and information mining from unsuspecting targets under false pretenses).
I also was approached by Southwestern and offered an internship. This has been my experience for the day that I’ve been in their circle.
Yesterday, I recieved the most random phone call from a student manager about this internship and I decided to go to an information session and find out what it was about. I went there today, and I listened and saw the book, and I decided that I would give it a try. I was briefly questioned by one of the student managers and he said he was looking for maturity and independence. Apparently, he saw that in me, so I was invited back for an interview tomorrow.
However, I read up on this company and though I don’t agree with a lot of the bad things stated, I did come to my own conclusions:
1. Those who are hired will have expenses to pay. As my parents don’t pay for any of my schooling and I am responsible for all my finances, I can’t very well ask them to help me pay for anything during the summer. So the hotel stays during training and Sunday outings were my first clue.
2. So many people dislike this company. I’ve seen many comments saying that if another Southwestern person comes to their door, they will call the police. Since we are technically not employees of Southwestern, who will help us if we get arrested for trespassing?
3. Again, we aren’t employed by the company Southwestern Advantage, so if something were to happen to us, they aren’t liable. Even if all the stories aren’t true and no one has been attacked while out selling (which is what they told us at my info session), what’s to say that it won’t happen? I live in Texas, as do my parents, so if anything were to happen to me, who would help?
So I called the guy and cancelled my interview. I just didn’t feel like it would be safe for me to participate in this. He was very rude over the phone, but I decided that if I had to step on his toes to ensure my safety, I would.
This reminds me of Vector Company except it is much worse. My boyfriend is actually at an information session for it right now…He is NOT going to do this after reading about the negative experiences people has had with this company.
Thank you for this blog. I was going to do this Southwestern thing till people had told me how it was a scam. Then I read this and turing it down seems to be the right decesion. Thank you so much.
If anyone has any information on whether any parents or students have filed a claim or taken any kind of legal action against this company and what has been the outcome, I would appreciate an email. Or does anyone know if the company has been investigated for how the program is promoted and implemented and how the college students are compensated? My son has signed up and is currently starting work. I am worried for him and need some facts. dwightmaron@yahoo.com
There are several reports and resources listed within the post. Reports of Southwestern salespeople being arrested for their lack of certification, improper licensing, and for lying to their target market are among them. Also detailed is the manner in which the company uses tried and true methods of cult-like conditioning to assure devotion and allegiance. There are also links to investigative reporting attempts resulting in legal maneuvering that forced retraction of certain statements while leaving other blatantly damning allegations intact. If those allegations had no merit – it stands to reason that Southwestern would have had them retracted as well.
I was visited this evening by a college student intern who was selling these books. She made it very clear up front that she was not affiliated with the school district but that she was selling books that were fun and educational …. think kids national geographic … maybe the quality of the books has gotten better because I didn’t see the magic cow example as described above but there were a section in the book for 4th graders about Noah’s Ark (being Christian I don’t have a problem with that but I can see where a lot of people would). Se was very nice and didn’t ask to use the facilities or for anything to drink … although now I feel a little bad for not asking if she wanted something. It does seem to me though that Southwestern takes advantadge of these young people. I was discussing with her for a few minutes about the neightborhoods that she’s covering and some of them are far less than desireable. Not a safe place for a little young lady to be after dark. When she had me sign the purchase contract I noticed a little fine print blurb about $19.95/mo for the website access and she said don’t worry about it, we didn’t put in any credit card info ….. my final thought on that is we’ll see. I think that what this all boils down to is that potential buyers need to look the books over well to determine if it’s something that they want to spend their money on and just like anyone else there are probably decent salespersons who’re just trying to make an honest buck… and there are probably those who take all the deceptive sales practices that the company teaches and takes them a step farther…. as for the company itself … they’re dumping these poor college kids in a very dangerous situation and that alone is enough to give me a bad taste for the company itself.
Hi….two guys saying they r college students and having a summer job with S W Advantage…..blah blah blah…i did not order anything…im a woman..but not an idiot. Everyone Be Careful!!!
My daughter got involved with this company this summer, but fortunately she only lasted a few days and came home, although she experienced tremendous feelings of guilt and failure because of the indoctrination she was given by the company that if she didn’t make a lot of money or gave up it was because she was weak and lazy. The week-long training school in Nashville was very stressful and she wanted to give up at first, but sincerely wanted to do a good job this summer to help pay for her college expenses. She had tried some of the math materials they gave her to sample and found it was helpful for her trigonometry final, so she really did think there was value to the materials they were selling. She was fortunate to have a nice host family (whose son has successfully participated in the program in another state) with two other sales people staying with her. Because she didn’t have a car, one of the other girls would drop her off in a neighborhood at 8:30am and pick her up at 9:30pm. (Their information for the parents of the workers would lead you to believe their day ended at 4pm. Also, it was not made clear to us that she would be alone, going door to door. She, and we, were given to believe that local schools would be providing the names and contact information of families that might be interested in their materials, so it would be directed marketing.) I can’t imagine who Southwestern thinks wants to open their doors to complete strangers after dark or that it would be safe for their “interns” to be doing that. The first day, she just shadowed one of the student managers, who was very rude to her and kept all the profits from that day for herself. The second day, she was left by herself in the pouring rain all day in a neighborhood, which as it turns out, was one of the worst in the area. As she was walking door-to-door, a car started following her with a man inside who was saying incredibly rude things to her. She finally sought shelter in a public library and called me crying that she wanted to come home. After calling her dad at work to get his advice she dediced to give it one more day if she could go to a different neighborhood. Since she still had hours to wait for her ride, she decided to try selling again since people would be getting home from work. The same man was circling the neighboorhood looking for her so she hid behind a fence until he left, then went back to the library. When that closed, she moved to a nearby Target to wait for her ride, who got lost and didn’t get her until 11pm. She contacted her student manager who gave her a different neighborhood to work, but advised her to go to their city hall to get a work permit. Turned out that would cost $100 which she didn’t want to pay, so she decided to give up. The nice lady at city hall was appalled at what my daughter was going through and gave her a ride to the police station of the previous day’s town so she could file a report on the creepy predator (it was 14 miles away and otherwise my daughter would have had to walk). Turns out the police were well acquainted with the man, he was a registered sex offender who had just been released from prison about a month earlier for assaulting several girls. My husband made a plane reservation for her to come home the next day and her host mother was kind enough to give her a ride to the airport. My daughter, and probably the majority of the students in the program, really have the best of intentions in entering this internship. Summer jobs for students are extremely hard to come by in this economy, especially for those who attend school far from home and can’t really begin looking until they arrive home after exams. She was excited to have something all lined up. She was prepared for it to be challenging, but that was just downright dangerous and I don’t advise anyone to try it. Fortunately she gave up before she had invested too much money in it and before anything really bad happened to her.
As someone who recently quit the internship, I can address some of the things the company coaches us to do.
For one thing, if you feel like this company somewhat brainwashes it’s interns then you are correct. I began my training months before I even left for Nashville. I had to meet with my student manager at least an hour every week; every week I was fed all the glamour of the company. When I got to sales school, they spend half of the week working to pump you up and to be terrified of being a failure. If you talk to people who are in this program, they all say the same things about how incredible it is and they teach you to look down on anyone who is too weak to do this. They have 150 years experience brainwahing students into giving up their summers.
Second thing, as soon as we get to a house, we’re suppose to put our bookbag right next to your door. Then once you answer, we’re suppose to spit out our approach to you quickly and then at the very end when we ask for a place to sit while reaching for our bag; we basically are suppose to be prepared to barge into your house. We have a designed sales talk for every aspect, even some of the talks we have almost belittle people for not having money supposedly to buy these books. We give the same examples to every person. Our business is designed to keep on chipping away at you until you finally give in and buy.
Third, we’re suppose to rush you. We’re not suppose to come back later. We try to sell you the feeling that your being a wonderful parent before you get a chance to really think about it. If you feel this is deceptive, then sadly again you are right. We don’t even straight ask you “do you want to buy this?”, we give a demo, do price build-up and then go into the close by asking for your address. It is designed so it’s almost like you don’t even know your buying it. We don’t want to give you the chance to do any research, we don’t leave any info about us for you to get in touch with us.
Fourth, we are told to get as much info about people as possible. Alot of the sales practices are psychologically based; we are suppose to pressure you from every angle especially socially. We need to not only figure out how to get into your life, but also your neighbors life so we can try to sell to them.
They claim they keep the students safe; no business who honestly had their workers best interests would send them to go door to door by themselves for 14 hours a day in an area they don’t know. I had safety issues and the cops begged me to leave. The cops were amazed this company would send a student to work in this area again, after they had had issues before. The company got me to believe I would be an absolute failure if I were to leave; I sobbed for days until the cops begged to leave. If you think my managers were the least bit sympathetic towards my safety being greatly jeopardized, then you are dead wrong. I got screamed at for not working hard enough after I was almost attacked. I finally decided I would be fine with being a “failure” if meant I was still alive.
This is a horrible company which takes advantage of young people. I’m so thankful the cops talked me into leaving and wish I had found this blog before I had agreed to do this. If nothing else, they need to figure out a way (maybe a buddy system) to keep the students safe and they need to be much more transparent about their operations and charges. It’s amazing this company can get away with all the stuff they do. It is disgusting they can work someone 80 plus hour a week and not pay them at least minimum wage for when that person doesn’t make a sale (which, other companies do have to do. But because this is considered an “internship”, this doesn’t apply).
NO doubt this is a scam but you kind of blew your credability when you had to bring politics into it and somehow blame Republicans. Now there are two scams; the books and you!
How is mentioning Southwestern’s political affiliation a scam? Perhaps you missed the pertinent information. Here you go.
fta: “Southwestern Company owners and executives have spent $151,398 dollars influencing Federal elections since 2000. Of their individual contributions, 86% have gone to Republican candidates.”
5-23-12
I just had an “intern” visit my house. We live in the country, so you can imagine that door-to-door salesmen are not a common thing. He approached me the very same way it was described above. He claimed to be visiting all the families in the county with children. He kept giving names of people I was supposed to know who I would guess live on our road, none of whom I knew. The young man claimed to be a college student doing an internship (though he did not specify with whom) to gain tuition money/credit. He tried very hard to ingratiate himself to me and get me to sit down on the porch with him for his pitch. He asked personal questions about being the mom of the house able to make spending decisions, what grade my kids were in, what curriculum they used in school, etc. When my answers and cooperation weren’t forthcoming, he decided to proceed with his salespitch. He then asked what I liked about the product he showed me. It looked decent so I asked for a brochure to further investigate. He claimed not to have anything and that the website doesn’t sell products. This seemed extremely questionable to me. If you’re selling a legit product and actually trying to make legit money, wouldn’t you have a flyer of some sort for people who might want your product? Or for people to share with others if they are satisfied with that product? Well, I then asked who published the curriculum. He said it was published by Southwest along with Cappa, Scholastic, and McGraw-Hill. But the information was vague at best. When I tried to look up the company, I came up blank. So, I called the sheriff’s department to report their actions. They had contacted the sheriff’s dept. to let them know they would be in the county. I was given the full name of the company – Southwest Advantage – and a phone number. I did not call the number as the operator could not say what the number was for. When the young man and his friend were about to leave, they asked about our neighbors. Who has kids, who would be home, etc. I wasn’t very helpful. There was just something very suspicious about this guy and how he was acting. Needless to say, we didn’t buy the product.
The sales rep visited our house 5 mins ago.He was not deceptive or misleading.He stated that he was not associated in anyway with the school system.He moved on after his sales pitch and did not pressure us.He did ask questions about if we knew our neighbors.I discounted my neighbors endorsement because my neighbors are kinda stupid anyway.We are both college educated and did not see the advantage of spending money on these books and cds and website. We purchased this 6 yrs ago when our kids were in 2nd and 3rd grade.They did not use the books but they did play the cd games and learned nothing.We gave the books to the school library.
I feel sorry for the employees. The young girl here seemed wonderful. After reading this, we’ll have to say no thank you.
So sad. It’s 10 at night and she’s walking around by herself, in shorts.
I had these people at my door yesterday. Seemed really nice young students but many things didnt make sense. I asked if she could leave me a business card or if there was a website because I don’t make rush decisions. She gave some excuse why she didnt have a card and didnt give me the website info. She wanted yes or no on the spot which to me a proper business would leave information for a potential maybe. They said to me “most moms know right away if they want it”. These girls said the company was started by a group of teachers. They said they were from British Columbia and
were talking to moms in Ancaster Ontario
Most of the college kids recruited for Southwestern are good, honest kids. What happens is that Southwestern and the student managers who become part of the “management” are deceitful and mislead students into thinking that this is a great opportunity. The students in the book field end up thousands of miles from home with no money (because of SW’s tactics) and without a support system. The company goes as far as to instruct students not to call home. MY ADVICE TO THE STUDENTS IS TO LISTEN TO WHAT PEOPLE ARE SAYING AND TO TRUST YOUR PARENTS’ ADVICE. These people from Southwestern are only interested in making money from your hard work. I told my daughter (who got in this mess) that if anyone from the company ever comes to my home, I’m going to feed them and make them call their parents.